Public vs. Private School
07.12.2011 OK firestorm, let it be said I threw the first match.
Raise your hand if you went to public school, K-12. Woot! Me too.
Private school kids, what about you? Maybe you're too awesomely rad to be reading this blob.
I don't have anything against private schools or the kids that go to them or graduate from them. I know that in some cities, like San Francisco, parents really have no choice but to enroll their kids in private school.
I'm not talkin' 'bout that. Nor does my argument apply to private colleges or universities.
But here's my assertion when it comes to public vs. private K-12. Yes, I'm getting all thesis on you.
Given all things being equal, with both schools having comparable API scores, dedicated teachers, good extracurricular offerings, I would rather have Emmy attend PUBLIC school than private school.
It's a no-brainer. That's the American dream. I will take a public school that kicks ass over a private school any and every day of the year because that's what this country is supposed to be about. The idea that any kid, from any socio-economic class, can go to school, for FREE, and be enriched and educated, is what an ideal American public school is. And because America is the most diverse country in the world, there's no better place to learn. From books, and from your classmates.
And guess what people, private school is BOUGIE! As in bourgeois. As in boo-jee. As in, rich, elite, homogenous, and NOT WHAT THE REAL WORLD IS LIKE.
Unless you are Paris Hilton and then, yes, your world is totally bougie and you can attend all the private school you want because you don't ever need to really bother with bettering yourself or contributing to the world in any way because your wads of cash money will be enough to keep you occupied forever.
Generally speaking, private school means: your parents have mad cash, they are white, and you are not in want of much. Again, before you light your torches and come stomping into my village to set my hair on fire, I'm not talking about the struggling SF parents who eat Cup 'O Noodle so Johnny can go to a school that doesn't have metal detectors and gangs running the yard.
There's technically nothing *wrong* with growing up K-12 surrounded by equally rich, white, need-less people.
But there's everything right and *better* with growing up K-12 surrounded by different people, and kids who come from different parts of the city, of the world, of the socio-economic spectrum.
Think about what private school kids are missing out on. They don't have poor friends. They don't have immigrant friends. They don't go to a slumber party and see 3 generations living under one roof. They don't try Sunday menudo at their buddy's house. And if you think, hell yeah, who wants that, I know a good private school for you to enroll your kid in. It's called Boo G Academy.
Sure you can send your kid to private school during the week and then take them to the soup kitchen on the weekend. They can do a little poverty tour on the "bad side of town" and get their Diversity 101 in when they watch Boyz N the Hood.
But when you graduate into the real world, a good public school education prepares you so much better for how to navigate. The earlier you can appreciate and value and understand different perspectives and backgrounds and learn how to interact in that kind of American grown up real life setting, the better.
I got into this debate with a co-worker who said he would rather send his kid to private school if he could. I was like, "Really? Even if all things were equal and the public school was in a good area with all the same academics and athletics?" Him: "Yep." His reason: "You want to give your kid every advantage in life."
But, and I'm totally biased because of my public school background, I don't think I know any private school kids that have blown me away with their smarts, their accomplishments, or their scrappiness. You don't really need to be all that if your parents have paid your way for the best in everything. It's just there.
And believe me, I want to give Emmy "every advantage in life." I would shoplift those advantages at gunpoint for her if I could because that's how much I want her to be successful and happy and awesome. Pretty much in that order.
I think a strong public school is the way to provide that. Isn't that why parents pay 2 million dollars for a bungalow in Palo Alto?
Bloggity, Conversations, Emmy, Friends, Random
Reader Comments (17)
I can see your point, with all things being equal, but unfortunately they're not--especially when the legislature of this fine state keeps cutting the K-12 budget annually. I really don't want to have my kid share her textbooks with another student or have 50 kids piled into one classroom with 4 or 5 out-of-control students inhibiting the other kids' learning experience, but what choice do I have?
No, I cannot afford to send my kid to a private school, but I would if I had the money. My parents were fortunate enough to send both me and my sister to a private grade school, but I went to a public high school so I've had both experiences. Yes, I had more life experience during high school but I feel that the classroom experience in grade school was better.
DB: Interesting perspective--since you went to both. Clearly I only went to public K-12. But even with the risks of CA budget madness, I believe in public school education in districts where they are performing as well as or better than private school. That shows you the parent and teacher involvement that makes up the difference that means more than just cash.
This is a firestorm and it dramatically affects our children and our nation. I am one of those folks whose hand went up when you asked "if you went to K-12 public school". My wife did as well. But things have changed dramatically since we (all) attended public schools; likely more than 15 years ago. To say that school districts like Palo Alto, Cupertino and other systems are "public" technically is correct, however they are in reality as elitist as the private schools.
Here (in my mind) is why the majority of California public schools are broken.
- It’s not who the public schools have in their classrooms, it’s who they can’t keep out. Ninety percent of the children are there to learn and to contribute to the learning process, but ten percent (more in some districts) are there to be disruptive. Gangs and drugs have greatly impacted the effectiveness of our middle and high schools. Unfortunately the incentive (monetary) for the schools is to deal with these kid the best they can, as long as they show up. That way they get attendance funding. It’s all about the per capita funding plan.
- Let’s not forget the diminished teacher resources and remedial services, due to draconian budget cuts, that make the ability to help under-performing pupils even more challenging.
My wife and I came to the realization that the California school system was not anything close to the public school systems that we grew up with in Maryland and Oregon. We were not going to make a social experiment out of my children by telling them “pull up your boot-straps and go to public school you’re your Mom and I did”. Vicky it’s not about us, it’s about them.
i have a cousin who recently graduated from private school, but also attended public. he believes he received a better education and is grateful that his parents sent him to private. did that get him in a better college? nope. he focused too hard on his studies and not on his leadership skills and extracurricular activities, making him as bland as vanilla. does he regret going to private school? nope. he's definitely smarter than many kids his own age, but that's because he's a book worm and reads anything and everything put in front of him.
whether private or public school education is a better for a child depends on the child. as db pointed out, privates offer smaller class sizes and individualized attention. if you have children who have short attention spans or learning disabilities, some public schools may not be the right fit. they may need extra help and/or rigorous coursework. if parents have the means, i'd encourage them to explore both options and see how their children do in both settings.
and i agree with bill. a lot has changed since we've been in school. actually, too much.
I, myself went to private school k-12 here in the upper peninsula and growing up I had a strong mixture of public and private school friends. As a recent college graduate from a public university I've been able to see the process and routes of public and private school kids from k-12 and to college.
I'll say that in the long run the whole private vs public school debate up to grade 12 doesn't matter. I know a lot of people from both public and private school backgrounds who went to good colleges, did well and have good jobs. I can also say the opposite and that I know people from public and private school backgrounds who for whatever reason aren't doing well. However, in the short run I feel private school's advantage was the discipline it gave the students (respect, sharing, caring, sports), the rules (uniforms, attending class etc), and zero tolerance (in HS a kid brought alcohol to school...kicked out next day). Not that any of this isn't enforced or taught at public schools, I'm sure it is, but hearing stories from various public school friends of kids bringing weapons to school, fights breaking out, and students not having to go to class just makes me feel the main difference early on is discipline. And one more thing: all those things about discipline is exactly how it is in the real world when someone gets a job. There are rules to follow, you must respect co-workers and your boss, and there is a standard to be kept up with....learn it early on.
I guess it's really up to the student and the parents to succeed through either system. If the kid wants to learn, sticks with the right crowd, and is pushed by their parents it really doesn't matter whether they go to a public or private school.
This is delicious. More posts to follow on this topic because it is such an important one and one that The Good Doctor and I don't necessarily see eye to eye on either. Excellent points brought up by all so far. Thank you for sharing your comments and insight. I wrote this to learn more and I appreciate the input.
I completely agree with Bill Hawkins. To say that Palo Alto and Cupertino are public schools is unrealistic. Not everyone can afford the multi-million dollar house that gets them into those districts. And while we're on the topic, with its high Chinese and Indian populations, Cupertino is not the diversity mecca you might think it is either. And have you seen the suicide rates for those high pressure schools on the peninsula? Who do you think is jumping in front of all those Caltrains? Just know that "nice" school technically are public schools, but they can be just as homogeneous as a private school.
I see your point about learning survival skills in a public school. No doubt it made me and my friends learn to make do with what we had. In short, we had to learn how to hustle. Growing up in east San Jose CAN make you stronger. But it's like the chicken and the egg question, did that environment make you that way, or did you do well in spite of it? If a poor neighborhood makes you stronger and more successful, then wouldn't all the students in East Palo Alto grow up to be CEOs? Ask yourself: could you, as a refugee fleeing a war and coming to this country dirt poor and not knowing English, could you have done better than you are doing right now if you had better schooling?
Same as Connie, I also have a cousin who got a 4+ GPA from a very prominent public school in the East Bay. But he got denied from Berkeley and UCLA. Why? I dunno, but it probably had something to do with looking just like the thousands of other applicants.
I think in the New Economy, what's going to get you ahead is learning compassion, adaptability, having good EQ, critical thinking, and confidence. Street smarts/ghetto hustle ain't bad to learn either. My vote is public school. Not in an exclusive area like Walnut Creek, Marin, Palo Alto, Cupertino, Atherton, Los Altos, or Los Gatos. Try neighborhoods that have a good mix of race and riches: Mountain View, Campbell, San Mateo, Sunnyvale.
That's my $.02.
Ok so I feel the need to stand up for my private school education from Archbishop Mitty High School and from Queen of Apostles Elementary School, so for those counting that's k-12 private education in San Jose.
I understand that things are bad now, but it wasn't great in San Jose in the 90's either. My dad was a blue-collar deputy with Santa Clara County Sheriff's Office and my parents struggled to send my brother and I to private school, but I have to say I got in to every college that I applied to and was recruited by even more, not because I'm super-smart but rather because I graduated from Mitty.
At the time Mitty was a great high school and it still is. It's known for the well-rounded education in science, literature, and performing arts (perfect for Emmy)not to mention athletics. Many great FEMALE athletes went to Mitty Kerri Walsh and Brandi Chastain to name a couple. You can tell I played sports.
Easy for me to say, as I don't have kids and don't live in San Jose (Reno isn't any better)but after watching Waiting for Superman I would do whatever it takes to get my child in a good school.
Our kid is only 13 mos old, and we already talk about this one a lot at home. I'd like to first point out that public school ain't free. We DO pay for it through taxes, and I don't like the return on investment I see in our Reno area schools. That being said, we happen to live in a neighborhood with one of the area's highest-rated (and noticeably, unfortunately white bread) public elementary school. If we're still there when the kid is school age, that's what we will probably go with. I do believe that private schools can do a better job of enforcing discipline and school policy, and also on keeping students focused on learning, and so far Hubs and I are in agreement on that. Sadly, finances will ultimately dictate. If it's retirement or private school, well, you know...
So I went to private all-girls Catholic school - in New Orleans. Not a whole lot of other options. And I'm still recovering from that. Seriously. The private thing AND the Catholic thing. Got a great education, learned to be a total bee-yatch, and attended dances that didn't allow Jewish or black people. AAAACK!
I'm now proudly sending my kids to public school in Florida - but honestly, it's in a place with less diversity than I'd like because of the quality of education issue.
I'm with you, Vicky. Learning to appreciate different kinds of people is part of life, and part of what public schools offer - but it's unfortunate that we're creating a tiered system in which public schools are certainly not all equal, and people are forced to choose their homes based on which schools offer the most.
So... first my anecdote - the kids who did the worst stuff (alcohol, drugs, skipping, etc) where I grew up tended to be the ones in private school. I can't explain it or expound conjecture on any correlations, but that's the truth in the circle of people my family knew (note - catholic schools were involved in some of the kids who were out of control).
I like to think that this conversation (debate to some) is going to be different in every part of the country too, but if I lived in a big city (SF qualifies in my definition) then I want to send my kids to private school for the academics.
Living in a suburb like Palo Alto, however, is where my wife and I agreed we can take advantage of public schools.
For us it's pretty simple - we think America has become an epic fail in the general sense of public schooling. In every election it's a big issue, but in California the schools just seem to get worse and worse.
Being a parent is a weird thing. I now treat myself to frozen pizza so I can buy quality things for my son. I think any parent who sends their kid to private school is just trying to do the best thing they can for the spawn.
I'm a Pre-K through 12th grade private school and community college graduate, and a CSU B.A. and California Multiple Subjects Teaching Credential holder. I am smart. Each school did well to prepare me for "the real world" in different ways. I could go into them, but I won't because there's too much to say.
I also have been a teacher at a Title I low-income school serving mostly immigrant families, many of whose attending students are second language English learners. There are WONDERFUL teachers at this school. But when it comes to send my guy off, I won't send him here. I used to think I would start him at my school because I want him to know about kids from backgrounds different than his own. I've since changed my mind because I have seen that many teachers at this school and my district are forced to teach to the lowest common denominator. Students are ill-prepared for reasons that are out of their control. I've taught Kindergarten students who have come to school without ever having held a pencil prior to their first day in my class. I have also attempted to teach social studies to eighth graders who read at a second grade level. To try to extract meaning from writing when you can't read is a difficult hill to climb. By eighth grade, many students deemed "smart" have stopped excelling because they become complacent. They see their peers have given up so they do too and as a teacher you've lost a kid who was once a fervent and effective learner.
I am not speaking ill of my school--I am just stating what I have learned from teaching here. When I go back to work (after staying home with my kid(s) for as long as I am financially able) I will work at this school (or in this district) until I retire. I am called to teach here and I adore the children and many of their families. I know there is a lot of promise in these kids. But a private school education seems the natural choice for my kid, mostly because we plan to stay in this area (Santa Cruz County) for the long haul. I realize our district does not represent all of California's public schools. In any case, we'll see what pans out as to where we send our kid because we have some odd years to figure it out still. Wherever he ends up going, I plan to educate him richly about people from different walks of life and show him how important (and interesting) it is to know about all sorts of cultures.
At the end of the day, Emmy will learn more from you, your husband, and the rest of your family than she will in (pre-college) school anyway. If she goes to public or private school, she will be equally as brilliant because she has a family who is actively involved in her education. THIS is what makes all the difference, in my opinion.
Oh yeah, and even though I went to private school for so long, I never eloped with a bad boy to get back at my parents. I never got crazy with opium, acid, heroin or PCP. I actually have never consumed any alcohol or illicit or tobacco-filled drugs for that matter, and I'm 30 and happily not divorced.
So it is IS doable. You CAN be a relatively well-adjusted private school kid, Woz. But I know what you're talking about. A lot of my friends went buckwild after they got out from their parents' grasp. I think it has more to do with their parentage than the school they went to though.
Very thought provoking post! I went to private school (but an Asian one... so different from the private schools you described... honestly not exactly what I'd call bougie ;) ) and hubby went to public. I would definitely send K to public school over private if the level of education and opportunities were equal. But the CA public school system quality varies greatly to a point where it's hard to compare even districts that are side by side. I could talk all day about the U.S. achievement gap and the factors that are pointed to as causes, but I don't think public vs. private is as cut and dry as most factors gap studies focus on (gender, ethnicity, socioeconomic status, etc.). The areas where the public schools are as good as (and dare I say some are better than) private schools are, frankly, typically quite elitist with neighborhoods of families who can contribute monetarily to the public schools and help give them resources to achieve that higher standard.
I would love for the American dream of equal educational opportunities to be a reality -- so much so that I'm currently applying to grad school/credential programs to possibly change careers and become a teacher myself. Despite laying them all off -- the fact stands that CA needs good teachers who will give their all in the public school classroom to try to give each kid an equal opportunity. Having and retaining those teachers will be a big step towards closing the gap. That said, I do think the biggest factor in a child's success is their parents' involvement and interest in their education. If a kid has that, I think public vs. private is almost a nonissue in terms of the child's educational performance.
Vir: "I do think the biggest factor in a child's success is their parents' involvement and interest in their education."
Agreed.
First let me start off by saying you're AWESOME! I thought I was the only person who said/used BOUGIE! LOVE IT!
Second...I attended public school K-12...when 30+ kids in a classroom was the norm. I went to a middle school and high school that people will often raise their eyebrows when I say the name because they aren't in the best area. I was exposed to a variety of kids from gang bangers to over achievers. But I'd like to think I turned out just fine. I'm a recent college graduate, with a paid internship at a reputable company. To top it off II didn't get knocked up or stabbed! I believe public school is what you make it to be. I was very involved...I was in clubs, sports and took my fair share of AP classes. I had a solid group of friends and end up having a great education. If your child has supportive parents and a good head on their shoulders I don't think they'll be at disadvantage by going to a public school. You learn street smarts, which can be just as important as Academic/Intellectual Smarts. You learn the value of hard work and how great it feels to be rewarded for it instead of being handed things. Best of luck and I'm sure wherever little Emmy goes to school she'll be great! She's one of the cutest "Martians" I've ever seen!
Anom: I think you meant cutest "Marvin" but autocorrect got you. Thanks from one bougie lover to another. My middle school was very much like what you described--bullies, gangs, a major mix of people. But yes, you do learn the value of hard work. Swim or sink. And yes, class sizes were always huge compared to now. It's a good debate and a lot of food for thought.
Tricia: Thanks for weighing in from the Sunshine State. Your BIL Gar has an interesting way of looking at things. He's way more hands off. And makes fun of me for liking Harvard.
Annie: I worked in Reno and when I was there, it was a good mix with opportunities in the better neighborhoods. Sort of like a mini Bay Area, considering the many transplants.
KD: der. I just realized that was you. My public school education is showing.