Public vs. Private School: Part Dos
07.14.2011 I need to first say: I love you all for the comments and insight and the honest conversation you opened up. The tone stayed earnest, candid, and open-minded with none of the vitriol and mean girls attitude that troll the Internets.
And I learned a lot in a short time. I wrote my post knowing I couldn't explain everything in one sitting but I could at least start a back and forth about something that is a) very important to me and to decisions we are going to make for little Emmy Stevie Wonder and b) is something that I really want to learn more about and see from different perspectives.
Who knew a blob could help me achieve that?
I'm still not firm on whether public or private school is the route we'll take. The second Emmy gets a slushee thrown on her cheerleading or badminton or chess uniform, I will Bing "how to homeschool your kid and not turn her into a social pariah." But until then, here's more of what I think, mixed in with your brilliance.
1. I'm not talking about any run-of-the-mill public school when I say "public school." I am talking about what my colleague Liza termed "private school lite." Cupertino, Mountain View, Palo Alto, Los Altos. They are public in name, but, let's be honest, exclusive in practice. Bougie and elitist? Yes. But at least they are bougie and elitist in a public school-technically-anyone-can-go-there-if-if-they-can afford-the-rent-or-mortgage-kind of way.
2. Why is that preferable to private school? I'm being idealistic here, I know, but there's part of me that thinks you're better served when you go to school with kids that might come from radically different backgrounds. And private schools seem to attract a more homogeneous crowd, even with the token brown kids who are there on scholarship and star in the admissions videos. Which I learned about in a conversation with one of those kids.
3. I know you're paying for it either way. Either you pay tons of cash and yearly property taxes for a house so you can go to private school lite, or you pay the 26K a year for private school. Blood is coming from that stone one way or another.
4. I definitely don't want to "make a social experiment out of my children by telling them 'pull up your boot-straps and go to public school'" because I did. Bill--you're right, I wouldn't send Emmy to the same public schools I went to either because they are in shambles now. But as long as there are good public schools out there, I will do my best to seek them out, live in their districts and give them a try. Because what's the alternative? Privatize everything? That would be awesome but even more unrealistic. Just look at merit-based teacher pay. Not happening.
5. KD's response: "with its high Chinese and Indian populations, Cupertino is not the diversity mecca you might think it is either. And have you seen the suicide rates for those high pressure schools on the peninsula? Who do you think is jumping in front of all those Caltrains? Just know that "nice" school technically are public schools, but they can be just as homogeneous as a private school."
I totally agree. I have also used the Caltrain argument many a time. I don't want to put Emmy in that kind of a pressure cooker. High school is supposed to actually be fun, people. It's not all 5.0 GPA's and piano practice. And those districts you mentioned--Campbell, San Mateo, Mountain View--thanks for your .02. It was worth at least a dollar.
6. "At the end of the day, Emmy will learn more from you, your husband, and the rest of your family than she will in (pre-college) school anyway. If she goes to public or private school, she will be equally as brilliant because she has a family who is actively involved in her education. THIS is what makes all the difference, in my opinion." This is from Kristin, a smart teacher who is in the trenches in Santa Cruz County. I trust her opinion.
7. Also from Kristin, about the reality in a lot of public schools: "I have seen that many teachers at this school and my district are forced to teach to the lowest common denominator. Students are ill-prepared for reasons that are out of their control. I've taught Kindergarten students who have come to school without ever having held a pencil prior to their first day in my class. I have also attempted to teach social studies to eighth graders who read at a second grade level. To try to extract meaning from writing when you can't read is a difficult hill to climb."
8. I think my biggest hangup comes from this: I'm lazy. I'm not a good teacher. I'm impatient. I want to trust in the system of public schools to teach Emmy the way my parents trusted in it to teach me. My friend Kiet sends his 1 year old and 4 year old to Montessori schools. His kids are awesome and smart and photogenic. Montessori school is expensive.
I'm like, Kiet, "You and I didn't have no fancy Montessori school. We're doing just peachy though, right?" But his response was, "But what if we did? Would we be more successful, would we have gone on to do bigger and better things if we had those resources?"
And folks, that's the million dollar question. Would I have been happier or richer or "better off" if I had gone to private school? Will Emmy?
I only know what I experienced as a public school kid, so the comments and perspectives that you've all shared are gratefully read and pondered on and continue to weigh on my mind.
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Here's what I learned from you about why private school is better. And so far, the overwhelming response has been that private school IS better. So Jeremy, you win.
1. Smaller class sizes.
2. More immunity to CA budget B.S.
3. Better access to elite colleges. Kelly said: "I have to say I got in to every college that I applied to and was recruited by even more, not because I'm super-smart but rather because I graduated from Mitty."
4. Teachers have more resources.
5. Higher "perceived" and "actual" parent involvement.
6. "Private school's advantage was the discipline it gave the students (respect, sharing, caring, sports), the rules (uniforms, attending class etc), and zero tolerance," a comment posted by "Ferris Bueller." I do like the uniforms and zero tolerance aspects of a private school.
7. From Sean on Facebook: "I'm a product of the Canadian public school system so i can't comment on the quality of U.S. public schools. However, the vast majority of my classmates at Harvard Law School were alums of elite private schools. Same for the folks i met at the Med school and the Business school, so play the odds."
You do know how much I want Emmy to go to Harvard. Crimson is such a pretty color on her.
But one thing you don't get if you go to private school: public school street cred. I may not be a lot of things. But I does have me that public school badge. And I wears it proudly.
Bloggity, Conversations, Emmy, Friends, Random
Reader Comments (11)
Where can I click the "like" button?
bravo. great post, vicky!
I should also add the my teachers were AMAZING i didn't have a bad one in four years of high school. They had high standards and were incredibly supportive. I would also suggest that you continue to save money for Emmy and ask friends/family as gifts to support her scholastic education just as much as buying her toys and clothes. That's what I do with my family.
One thing I've heard and wonder if it's true or not is that private school teachers usually get paid less than public school teachers. If this is true, then whoa - isn't it ironic... don't ya think?
Great followup post Vicky!
Woz - my mom was a private school teacher for 21 years and she never made even close to the median income of a public school teacher in the same area. My hubby taught private school HS for 3 years and also made less than a public school counterpart would have. However -- I don't know if this is true for all private schools. This one doesn't cost a whole lot and is definitely non-profit so that could be a reason why. The tradeoff was their job stability was a little bit better than current CA public school teachers.
Interesting points, Vicky (yeah, I been a creeper on here for awhile). I'll throw 2 more cents in re: access to elite colleges. Having grown up in one of those public private-lite school districts, I've seen the opposite effect as that described in point 3. I think for students who are going to do well in either setting (perhaps because of a great home environment), it might actually be harder for them to get into those elite colleges from a private high school than from an elite public one. Writing only from my own experience, I saw very talented kids who left our public high school to attend elite private high schools who then did not get into the Ivy League/etc. colleges they applied to. Because, when compared to their many, many accomplished private school counterparts, they didn't look as shiny and special as they might have coming from a public school student pool. This is of course, my theory-- maybe they wouldn't have gotten into those schools anyway, even if they had stayed. And, more importantly, maybe it doesn't matter! If they went to Vassar instead of Harvard, who cares? They still probably had, on average, a higher quality of education at their private high school, for some of the reasons you stated above (class sizes, resources, more flexible/creative curriculum). But, if getting into a super elite college is a high priority (I agree, Emmy would look lovely in crimson), then it's something to think about. Finally, I just want to make clear that I'm talking very small degrees here-- the kids that left public to go private still went to GREAT colleges, but maybe just not Harvard/Princeton/Stanford/Yale/etc.
I think little Emmy is going to be a smashing success, wherever you decide to send her :)
I know I'm in Idaho, not in California,,,and there is a difference. My older 2 started out in private school, then moved to public. Both kids excelled AFTER moving to public schools. Having said that, neither is challenged to their full potential during regular class. I don't think it would have happened in private school either though...at least not here. I do know this...the decisions you make that affect your children, are the hardest ones. Good luck.
Ktrue: You creeper!! Thanks for weighing in. Very interesting to hear your insight. PS You should be studying for the bar.
Leah: Great to hear from you. Saw your mom this weekend. Congrats on baseball state champs!! Interesting that they are doing better in public school. No matter what, the home life and what we do as parents will matter a ton, regardless of pub vs private. Which sucks because I'm lazy. But that's what husbands are for. Math drills.
Vir and Woz--Wow, that truly is ironic. Had no idea. The job stability tradeoff makes sense but still. Wow.
This is probably redundant and (GASP!) terribly structured since it's midnight and I'm half asleep, but here goes.
Being a relatively recent high school graduate, I would personally put my children through public school initially but then possibly switch them to a private middle school or high school. I agree that it is very important for kids to be exposed to a variety of different backgrounds, but to put it simply, public high schools can be straight up scary. I can't even tell you how many horror stories I've heard from Mountain View High and Los Altos High, both neighbors of my alma mater, Saint Francis. Saint Francis students weren't angels either, but we're talking the difference between some SFHS senior pot busts and MVHS heroin addicts injecting between classes (LITERALLY). Of course, the hardcore drug addicts were few, but there's a wide range of other trouble to be had and I'm personally glad that I didn't have to deal with it.
I split my elementary and middle school years between private and public schools and looking back on it, I think there wasn't much of a difference between the two schools until 6th grade. I learned a lot from both schools and I didn't prefer one over the other. I spent 6th and 7th grade in a public middle school, and that's when the questionable behavior started to pop up. I was introduced to more "mature" or "immoral" content (whatever it may have been) but it wasn't a school-wide problem; the sexually active 12-year-olds were a minority. I switched to a private school in 8th grade and then eventually went to Saint Francis, which I loved. We definitely weren't all that sheltered from the real world (despite the school's efforts) but I felt very, very safe there. I don't think that can be said for public schools, nor do I believe that public schools hold students to the same level of academic integrity.
Because I originally attended public schools, I got to befriend people of many different backgrounds when I was young. I'm not sure that I would be as comfortable as I am with all sorts of people if I didn't have that experience. However, I think I switched to private schools at the right time. The older that students get, the more the academic margin swells between public and private schools. When you're in elementary school, there's not a huge academic difference... but I really do believe that I was held to a higher standard at Saint Francis, guided by superior teachers.
You don't know how Emmy is going to turn out, though. She may be a very self-motivated and independent student who will be at the top of her class wherever she goes, or she may need the structure of a private school to guide her in the right direction. If I were you, I'd put her in public elementary and middle schools until you see a reason to switch over.
That being said, Los Gatos High School essentially IS a private school, and I consider it to be by far the best in the area. Lexi goes there and loves it. In my opinion, LGHS and Palo Alto High are the two best.